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Subject:To Wiccans_Unite
Time:07:36 pm
You know if you paid any real attention to this group you would see we have more important things to do then send anyone to you for "fun".

We love pointing out your hypocrisy of "Tolerant Wiccans and Pagans" yet you ban anyone who may be a friend or just watching this community.

You are nothing but spoiled little children who do not seem to understand the stupidity in which you have embroiled yourselves. One has to wonder what a community that is open to all pagans and wiccans truly is like if they ban certain pagans and wiccans for being friends with certain people or expressing opinions about certain things.

If you truly wanted to learn you would not be banning people.

I pity you for you will gain no knowledge but false knowledge, which will only get you hurt.

sad.
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leeoakfire
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 05:00 am (UTC)
you wrote--
" I find it funny that so many newly banned people come here to report it. Seems to me that if she was not right about who she was banning there wouldn't be so many of you showing up here to join the choir."

Well, the reason some of us end up here is precisely *because* we got banned. And, once we were banned others let us know about it.

I have only been on lj for less than a month! I have been wandering around in communities and different pagan journals looking for interesting discussions. I went onto Wiccan_Unite and read some of their posts. I was very confused because they said they were open to any sincere and respectful pagans, but yet when I read the posts they were bashing BTW-Wiccans. I am a BTW Wiccan, and I respectfully asked why they were being hypocritical.

I received a reply that told me they were not being hypocritical (which I do not agree was accurate, as the post I responded to was definitely bashing a tradition, not specific people from that tradition). I was told that "You are welcome to stay here, but coming in to instigate disagreement in my community will not be tolerated." When I attempted to respond to that message, I discovered that I had indeed been banned.

I received an off-community message from Raven that I am not welcome in the community because I have Silvertree on my friends list. I don't know Silvertree; she has a *lot* of people that have friended her because she writes interesting posts. So, I am banned from the list, but yet Raven has a post up saying that I am welcome. The fact that I cannot reply to that post makes it appear that I was a troll.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wiccans_unite/32158.html

The comment that I posted from you is some sort of fallacy (not sure what type but I know it is one; I am just learning to recognize them -- in pursuit of an education I welcome comments regarding this) Two things I do know is that 1) your comment is incorrect and a form of "victim-bashing" and 2) now that I have had this experience as a new lj user, I sure am *not* going to have anything to do with that community or Raven.
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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 05:14 am (UTC)
"I received an off-community message from Raven that I am not welcome in the community because I have Silvertree on my friends list."

Wow, what if you're a UK feminist? what if... oh what if 1000 other things? I didn't realize that wiccans_unite was STILL a personal vendetta community.
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leeoakfire
Subject:actually ...
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:24 am (UTC)
...the reason I put Silvertree on my friends list is because I found "Menstrual Lib" through her. My progression through lj is that first my husband recommended nonfullypagan to me (because of something I was upset about that was not on lj), then I found Silvertree, then Mentrual Lib, then was Wiccan_Unite, then Temple of the Cat, and from there to here. what is next .. this has been an interesting journey! I didn't know about this controversy until reading this community this evening -- it has been interestin! (note: I have been Wiccan since 1975, so I have seen a few fights)

And, by the by (and totally off topic), I am confused about some stuff as to how lj works and was unable to figure it out in the FAQ Is there someone who is willing to correspond with me to explain a couple of questions about how the "friends" system works?
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karlthepagan
Subject:Re: actually ...
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:27 am (UTC)
sure, if you have AIM or MSN:

Karl13Pagan
karlthepagan@hotmail.com

I am only an egg ;) (pagan since ~1995, online since ~1992)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


karlthepagan
Subject:Re: actually ...
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:28 am (UTC)
note, I don't check that email much, it's just a spamtrap for my msn IM account
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

leeoakfire
Subject:Re: actually ...
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:18 pm (UTC)
thanks. I did write you an email but it came back as undeliverable. I didn't even know what AIM or MSN was, so I asked my in-house computer tech today. (I am a fluffy computer user! lol) I have never used a chat program, although a friend recently showed me how hers works. I used to be a ludite .... now at least I am on-line, and have been since 1997, but very selective about what I learn and use -- lj is my new lesson for this half of the year! Maybe after I get proficient on lj then I will learn chat. I have a lot of time to play on-line right now as I am laid up with a wretched ankle.

Anyways, I do appreciate your help. I read, and re-read the FAQ last night and understand the answers to my questions better. Thank you!
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

leeoakfire
Subject:IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION NEEDED
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 08:27 am (UTC)
As this is copied over from a different post on this list -- the "you" that I am quoting is gabigabs, *not* sonicwylde - I am fairly new to lj (within the past month) and I clicked on gabigabs post to make my reply, but perhaps was not clear enough with that info. (and, yes I am yelling with caps but want to make sure this is really clear -- sonicwylde did not make the remark I am quoting)
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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 04:12 pm (UTC)
you can read the entire conversation by clicking "read comments"
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

leeoakfire
Subject:sigh
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:22 pm (UTC)
thank you for explaining that. I am an inexperienced computer user, new to this program .. a "fluffy geek"!
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


lkrobinson
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 12:08 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry...you're right it is partially victim-bashing. I really don't mean to be so hard on BTW members. Honestly, I just don't like the way some people have phrased things to me. People have said this acting as if they were speaking on behalf of BTW when they aren't members...some when they have nothing to do with even being pagan. I have to go to work right now, so I'll continue this later.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


beltainelady
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 01:10 pm (UTC)
If you're BTW, then you don't want to associate with a community like wiccans_unite anyway.

Not enough stimulation for people of even average intelligence, much less anyone over the age of 14.

As a BTW, I've gotten used to the bashing, and rarely respond anymore, except to possibly educate any lurkers who might actually be interested in learning more. Hidden children....only those who are worthy will "get it".

Get it?
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blackthornglade
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 03:24 pm (UTC)
You elitest Borg Wench, you... ;)

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)


beltainelady
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 03:26 pm (UTC)
Yeah....well...

I *am* the Queen, after all ;)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

leeoakfire
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:24 pm (UTC)
I get it -- it is also a line on a song by Lady Pithia and Todd Allen. My tape fried, does anyone know what I am talking about or where to purchase a new one? They were together as a band back in the 1980's; I used to be a friend of Lady Pithia back then, but have lost touch.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

bukyou
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 03:25 pm (UTC)
The comment that I posted from you is some sort of fallacy

Fallacy of affirming the consequent?
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

leeoakfire
Subject:thank you!
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:36 pm (UTC)
I am primarily self-taught, and have been studying these so that I can both recognize them and not use them.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/afthecon.html
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