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Subject:To Wiccans_Unite
Time:07:36 pm
You know if you paid any real attention to this group you would see we have more important things to do then send anyone to you for "fun".

We love pointing out your hypocrisy of "Tolerant Wiccans and Pagans" yet you ban anyone who may be a friend or just watching this community.

You are nothing but spoiled little children who do not seem to understand the stupidity in which you have embroiled yourselves. One has to wonder what a community that is open to all pagans and wiccans truly is like if they ban certain pagans and wiccans for being friends with certain people or expressing opinions about certain things.

If you truly wanted to learn you would not be banning people.

I pity you for you will gain no knowledge but false knowledge, which will only get you hurt.

sad.
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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 04:23 pm (UTC)
what beliefs again?
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lkrobinson
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 05:42 pm (UTC)
Now- I don't believe in focusing on the lighter side of life to the exclusion of balance. I believe that the exaggeration present in how people talk about those 'fluffy bunnies' is uncalled for. Why not just talk about balance with them. I'm not saying you should try this on the closed community, but there are other communities to do so without being offensive and making comments like these:



"I love the goddess and that should be the most importent thing, right?? I LOVE HER and I know that she loves me!! and all living things, which is why I only eat fruit that has fallen on the ground by itself, and milk from the goat that my neighbor keeps in his yard, and THAT IS ALL. Meat is Mean, that is why they are only 1 letter different!!

I am practicing that thing I was talking about on TT, is it working??"




"You know, in this thread, _emerald_rose asks some relatively basic newbie questions. She might actually get more meaningful answers if she didn't kick the BTW off of her community.

Has it dawned on her that, for serious answers, you need serious, intelligent people there to give them?

*considers the source*

Probably not. And this is how fluff continues to spread like a cancer. "



"wiccans_unite has a suggested reading list, now.

While some of the books are actual scholarly works that *I* have a hard time getting through (which makes me doubt that some of the mindless wonders over there will be able to do so), Edain McCoy, Cunningham, and Silver RavenWolf show up all over the place.

I feel nauseated. I'm not sure if it's the list or the antibiotics I just took, though. :P"

"her fluffy white light world of wicca."

"a dozen interested newbies & fluffheads "

"No new spies for now. She's closed the membership entirely. "

----Too Busy, huh?


Some people do believe that the Goddess is a white light and love, I suppose. When they experience the darker side of life I suppose their opinions will be revamped- but do you really need to be so snarky about it? What's the point? Are you focusing on the darker aspects to balance their focus on light? Talking down to people doesn't make them take into consideration what you're saying. If Raven's being a twit then why not ignore her? Silvertree could have handled her own battle if she chose to take it...but she didn't. I think she's about the only one who is being mature about it all- even if I do disagree with her definitions.

Anyway- it doesn't really matter because you like this and will continue no matter what I argue...so there's no point it arguing at all.



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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 05:57 pm (UTC)
2nd quote: that's a criticism of her draconian moderation

3rd quote: disagreeing with a specific author is not mocking beliefs

last quote: so what? people wanted to read friends-only posts.

I'll also note you didn't dig up anything that I said. Others are free to express their opinions including criticism of raven for what in their opinions are newbie wiccan stereotypes. Are you complaining to those people or is this guilt by association?
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lkrobinson
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:05 pm (UTC)
It's not guilt by association- though saying everyone in Raven's community certainly seems close to that. It's what this community is expressing. I didn't say any one person said it- I was speaking of the group because the orginal post was speaking for the group. Besides which, I'm not saying people don't have a right to say it- I'm saying that these are statements that make fun of where people are coming from- their positions on life as of the moment. So what- if they're new why does anyone have to go on with elitist snobbery- why not teach with kindness, not bitterness? The reason "Wicca" as a whole is going to skew very far in many directions is because of the elitist snobs yelling and ranting instead of teaching. I believe that most people would be able to be won over with logic and truth instead of name calling. Those who can't- ignore them! They're not going to negativly effect anyone but themselves.
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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 06:30 pm (UTC)
Noone here can speak for the whole group. We are not incorporated or organized in that way. Everyone has a different reason for being here.

By this same logic then, is it fair to say that wiccans_unite mocks the beliefs of British traditional witchcraft adherants? Isn't that hypocritical of you? If you force the members to endorse every other members' statements here then we must require the same of wiccans_unite.


No, that isn't the purpose, nor the cause, for this community's existance. It's a side-effect and when it happens it does not represent all of us.
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lkrobinson
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 08:11 pm (UTC)
I know that no one can speak for the whole group. Point is that if anyone wants to speak as if wiccans_unite is one whole cohesive community full of "fluffies" and denounce the members as such, you're going to get the same treatment back.

I guess opinions come through no matter what one does.

...I wouldn't say the community was created to mock BTW but to provide a place to discuss practices and issues without being beaten over the head with the fact that they are different. Not that all BTW would do this- but that some have and that is why Raven created the community. It hasn't turned out to be a very good community- their original stated purpose is alot more useful then what it's become, unfortunatly.
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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 09:01 pm (UTC)
"Point is that if anyone wants to speak as if wiccans_unite is one whole cohesive community full of "fluffies" and denounce the members as such, you're going to get the same treatment back."

Who exactly is doing that? I've not noticed much criticism of anyone other than the mod and her newfound despotism.
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lkrobinson
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-09 02:06 am (UTC)
*sigh* There were many instances, including one in this post I believe where everyone over there was referred to as "fluffheads" or some other such word.
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karlthepagan
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-09 02:08 am (UTC)
And this criticism was independant of the drama connected to the creation of wiccans_unite?

Otherwise that's really the specific individuals who acclaim to the same view as raven rather than the general group of people who have wandered into that comm in the months since, right?
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beltainelady
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-08 09:17 pm (UTC)
Ya know...

I gotta wonder why y'all are so concerned about what BTWs think of you.

Little insecure about your place, eh?
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lkrobinson
Link:(Link)
Time:2005-02-09 12:04 am (UTC)
It isn't what people think but what people continuously say. I believe I stated that before.
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