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Subject:wiccans_unite divide
Time:12:33 pm
WE accept everyone: and yet they have banned me, why? for nothing that I did. I defended a friend they accused of starting a community (which she did not) and asked why another friend as banned who had done nothing to their community...

and I just find out I am banned from them as well... I did not violate their rules... unless one of their rules is "You are in a community that was created to mock ours, and we are just to good to have you here"

Wiccans_Unite is not accepting of anything that differs from their view on things. THey banned wiccans from there because they wiccans disagreed with them... how accepting is that?

If people wish to have themselves taken seriously, stuff like banning people who do not always agree with you is not a way to do it.
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Subject:Banning Spree
Time:02:05 pm
Current Mood:mischievous
Just as an experiment, I joined this group at 8:46am. I joined wiccans_unite at 9:09am. I was booted from wiccans_unite at 2:03pm. I had on purpose not posted in either community yet. My suspicion was confirmed. :-)

Fortunately, I like this company better than that one.
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Subject:What would you do?
Time:10:59 am
It has come to my attention that _emerald_rose (AKA _raven_myst_) has made a false statement in a sworn document. In my jurisdiction it is perjury in the second degree, in Oregon (LJ's jurisdiction) is is "false swearing". It would be first degree or actual perjury if there were damages (there are not, I'm salaried so I can't show personal loss of wages).

How much should I chase this? I've got some time to come up with my plan and act (filing the counter-notification), but the sooner the better. Some of these actions will require silvertree's casual participation (a simple statement of ownership & permission to use the content in question, post or comment publicly in your own journal if you like).

OMG A POLL and a chance to comment!!!Collapse )
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Time:01:54 pm
Looks like they removed everyone who was a member of both communities. I have not posted ONCE to that community but I have been removed.

That's ok; most of their shit was so beyond fluffy that I'm kinda thankful to have a graceful exit.
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[ulbh]
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Subject:Fluffy Behavior 101
Time:12:46 pm
I checked our Fluffy Behavior 101 page to see if perhaps the recent flappage necessitated additions. I can't think of any, but it's amusing to see how many of the listed characteristics apply to Certain Persons with Unoriginal Names.
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Subject:*snorts*
Time:12:49 pm
I take it back. I have, apparently, been removed from wiccans_unite.

And I only made one more post there last night. Apparently, it's ok to ban someone for things that they say elsewhere and the company they keep. *tsk* so much for being welcoming and open.
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Subject:*heh*
Time:12:47 pm
*preens in the general direction of Enyo*

Im amused that they're now a moderated community.

*teehee*
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[enyo]
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Subject:They really should post spew warnings over there.
Time:06:08 am
wiccans_unite has a suggested reading list, now.

While some of the books are actual scholarly works that *I* have a hard time getting through (which makes me doubt that some of the mindless wonders over there will be able to do so), Edain McCoy, Cunningham, and Silver RavenWolf show up all over the place.

I feel nauseated. I'm not sure if it's the list or the antibiotics I just took, though. :P
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[enyo]
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Time:06:05 am
You know, in this thread, _emerald_rose asks some relatively basic newbie questions. She might actually get more meaningful answers if she didn't kick the BTW off of her community.

Has it dawned on her that, for serious answers, you need serious, intelligent people there to give them?

*considers the source*

Probably not. And this is how fluff continues to spread like a cancer.
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[enyo]
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Subject:Does someone over there maybe get it?
Time:06:01 am
At wiccans_unite, amethysteria suggested that people who are rude in someone else's journal should be dealt with.

Okay, sure. That's cool. We probably have differing ideas on how to deal with people, but that's okay, too.

But then, she goes on to say, "maybe they should make their own slinging journal". Last I checked, that's what was done. Too bad that _emerald_rose's little power trip is too much for her to handle.

I wonder if it's ever occurred to our favorite little twit that she's the only "all-accepting community" to have banned members, kicked people off, and locked down comments where only certain people can respond, regardless of membership?

Funny, that.
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[enyo]
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Subject:Oops.
Time:05:56 am
Things I posted in my own journal last night instead of over here. (I would have been sleeping, but I had to get up, eat food, and take a pill. Ickies.) I'll blame it on excessive sleepiness.

Thoughts:
Maybe silvertree should file a complaint to LJ Abuse about wiccans_unite? After all, the copyright that this group supposedly violated came from a stolen group, anyway. So, using that theory, LJ should remove wiccans_unite, as well.

Unless, of course, _emerald_rose should decide that she erred in her report. Maybe someone should drop a line to WV about where her logo came from, among other things? Trimming part of the WV logo does not make for an original, permissible graphic.

I wonder...
Does wiccan_elysium realize that running an informative community requires postings from people who have their head somewhere other than firmly implanted in their collective asses?

*continues reading* Guess not. You know that all hope is lost when Random Capitalization of Words set In.
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Subject:Potential Icon
Time:02:42 am
Icon usable for wiccans_untie, if'n Karlthepagan likes it. (Or usable by anyone else. I didn't really expect her to come out with a pink polka-dot outfit; the fun of learning Photoshop settings on the fly.) No copyright issues apply; falls vaguely under "parody" rules, and the person is made with an imagebuilding program.

Not as "funny" as I'd like, I think. Hmm.
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Subject:All this silly debating
Time:01:17 am
Over what one quasi-Wiccan thinks of the real Wiccans, and other Pagans. We are ignoring the important issue: How do we make neo-Wiccans acknowledge Discordianism as a valid and true Wiccan path?

I refer, of course, to Eclectic Discordian Chaoism, a very variant of Wicca. In the loose, emerald-roseish sense of Wicca, of course, meaning that the word "Goddess" is involved somewhere, and the Rule of Three and the Rede are both mentioned.

wiccans_unite needs a couple dozen Erisians to point out *their* personal opinions, while maintaining a respectful stance in regards to others' opinions, of course. Like frequently repeating, "None of us knows anything about Wicca," and "all opinions are equally wrong" and "the real meaning of Wicca is Women In Charge Can Aggrevate, which we all know is sometimes true, so obiously some opinions about WICCA are true and some aren't and we should all acknowledge that."
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Subject:Wow.
Time:01:38 am
I saw that post earlier tonight. It makes me laugh that she can have all of that info on the front page and then just toss everything that she is 'standing up for' by filing a complaint by saying the things she does. Her attitudes clearly show that she doesn't follow what she preaches. The others in the group seem to be a sincere bunch but she seems to be on a power trip.

I'm really sorry that you have to go through all this legal stuff just for something that any other person would have take either as a joke or a sideways compliment.
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Subject:Abuse log update
Time:10:37 pm
HOLY CRAP these are some tight & twisty flaming hoops to jump through.

Filing an abuse complaint (even a fraudulent one) IS the kiss of death for a LJ user. I will be sending an email or letter to a local "on the cheap" attourney. However, if there is anyone with reasonable progress on a law degree I'd appreciate your advise (you can post a response here).


PREVIOUSLY POSTED CONTENT CENSORED
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Subject:Tales.... of..... hypocrisyyyyyyyyyyyy
Time:07:05 pm
wiccan members will appreciate _emerald_rose's new-found faux even-handedness.

THIS IS AN EXERPT WITHIN THE LIMITS OF FAIR-USE
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wiccans_unite/16394.html


Think about this:
You would be a tolerable and gracious host to guests in your house, but if they came in and repeatedly crapped on your living room floor (a very disruptive and disrespectful act indeed) every time they came over, you would eventually reach the point where you would not welcome them any more.

...

Tell, me - does their behavior reflect the behavior of what it means to be Pagan and/or Wiccan? I should say not. It's funny really. If an innocent bystander where to take a look at the present bahaviors of the persons in the two communities involved it would seem fairly obvious to this person who the genuine Wiccans/Pagans are.

Actions speek louder than words.



I was banned after one discussion, when I was debating _emerald_rose on the topic of the intent of this comm. I apologized for the subjective interpretation of the icon labels, and after all that I'm the one who is libeled, called a theief, and had the Digital Millenium Copyright Act fraudulently used against me.

We'll see what gets reaped from what's sown in wiccans_unite.

UPDATE: the post was deleted.
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[enyo]
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Subject:Wouldn't it be funny...
Time:07:33 pm
After all the ranting and raving that _emerald_rose has done, wouldn't it be funny if her group got yanked for copyright violations?

Maybe I just have a sick sense of humor. Or something.

Oh, and Jet? :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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[enyo]
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Subject:Well, damn
Time:07:29 pm
I guess I should go cry now, because apparantly, I'm not a REAL pagan by the standards of a twit.

Funny, she thinks she can make judgments upon how pagan others are when she's ripping off bits from everyone she can. Guess the Rede only applies when she can use it as a weapon to bash over other people's heads.
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Subject:Sheesh
Time:09:20 pm
Why don't they just be honest and admit that they don't welcome everyone and aren't open to honest discussion and get offended at someone who even mildly questions their views? It certainly looks like they copied stuff from elsewhere so why are they getting so uppity about you using it? You have even stated that this is a parody community. They should be 'honored' to be considered worthy of a parody :)

Oh and Jet PPPHHHHTTTTTTHHHHH!!!!
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Subject:Muaha!
Time:08:31 pm
Current Mood:bouncy
I can be a member of both groups! But that's cause I have a speshul invite to be there since I'm not the evil ogre I was made out to be.

*grins*
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Subject:Chronology of complaints against this community
Time:04:51 pm
PREVIOUSLY POSTED CONTENT CENSORED
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Subject:On this community
Time:04:38 pm
This isn't going to last too long.

There's a falsely-filed copyright complaint against the community which I must be at least willing to legally defend (waste of time! even tho I will do it, I'll even BLOG all documentation here!).

I don't plan on enabling the bulletin board or leaving this open forever. When either people stop complaining about wiccans_unite, or it reforms, or it dies a natural death I'll lock up this community and just leave it for posterity. I changed the max posts per page to 1000, so there will be no page turning to see the historic drama.

After all is done... maybe I'll turn this comm into a topical index of our favorite snarky "never take yourself too seriously" webcomic
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[enyo]
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Subject:SonicWylde
Time:04:18 pm
Doh! <.facepalm> Why didn't I think of that?

Prolly because she's eternally Jax to me, no matter what she calls herself.

Well, no, that's not true. She's also dead sexy. ;)
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Subject:Definitions
Time:04:22 pm
Please note the following words and their new, improved meanings, especially created for use within wiccan/neo-wiccan/neo-pagan groups (which we know to be all following the same religion, because some students said so):

Tolerance: Acceptance of those opinions and actions that are the same as our own.
Example of tolerance in action: "Realize that when you joined this community, you agreed to abide by the community's info page. For the purpose of this community, the stated definitions will remain. If this concerns you, maybe you should reconsider if this the place for you."

All: Those members of the Pagan communities who do not argue with the community owner. "...happy to welcome Wiccans of all paths and traditions, all members of the Pagan community..."

Negative: Disagrees with thirty-year-old scholarship, or student essays about religions they don't practice.

Flaming: Repeats disagreement after a moderator has said that what's written in a book is good enough for her, and good enough for the other members of this community.

Traditional Wicca: The religion downline from Gardner, plus variations involving other cultural identies.

Neo-Wicca: Anything at all that calls itself Wicca, regardless of beliefs, practices, training, or education of members. Neo-Wiccan beliefs are "similar" to Traditional Wiccan beliefs, but differ in any number of unspecified ways. In order to avoid dissent, we will declare that anything claimed to be Neo-Wiccan must be Neo-Wiccan.

Neo-Pagan: Neo-Wiccan.

Ban: What you do to anyone willing to state a trad-based belief in the face of Neo-Wiccan bullshit. Also, what you pre-emptively do to their friends.

Important Note: A ban is not a sign of intolerance!!! We welcome *ALL* members of the Wiccan, Neo-Wiccan, and Neo-Pagan communities!! Banning is the only rational response to negativity; since debate serves no purpose, any disagreements longer than 4 (four) messages will result in a ban. This will be followed by a declaration of tolerance, and a welcome message encouraging everyone without a brain negative attitude to join our community, wherein we will:

Exchange poetry,
Practice dream interpretation, and
Agree that anyone who doesn't think Wicca means anything we want it to be, doesn't belong here.
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Subject:Enyo
Time:04:20 pm
BL is Beltaine Lady :-) hehe I dont use her nick as I havent been told I could :-)(one of my quirks I have a nick name that I only allow certain people to call me)
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Subject:How do you find out?
Time:04:19 pm
If you are banned from a community?
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[enyo]
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Subject:Ping: sonicwylde
Time:04:14 pm
Current Mood:evil
Who's BL? Did I miss something?

And, obviously, you can't be a member of both groups. We are, after all, the evil faction that represents everything that the tolerant, accepting pagans are against!
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[enyo]
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Subject:Ping: Jax
Time:04:13 pm
Hey, darlin', I never posted anything at wiccans_unite. I never even commented. Nor was I ever mentioned. :) Must be "guilt by association".

See? I knew that karma would get me for being friends with people like you. ;)
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Current Music:Clannad - Siúil a Rún
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Subject:Entrace Questions for wiccans_unite
Time:04:14 pm
Current Mood:amused
1. Do you promise to worship _emerald_rose and believe all she tells you?
2. Do you promise not to call her on her plagarism and hypocricy?
3. Do you have an IQ under 100?
4. Do you believe that the Goddess is all wonderful and filled with Light and Life and Love?

If the answers to all of the questions above are yes, be welcome here. Merry Meet and Blessed Be (but not Blesseder Be than me)
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[enyo]
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Subject:Funny stats
Time:04:09 pm
wiccans_unite stats:
days in operation: 29
members: 30

wiccans_untie stats:
days in operation: 3
members: 14

Not bad, considering they've been in operation nearly ten times longer. :) Wonder how many members and how active that community would be if it weren't being lead by a hypocrite who claims to accept everyone while banning people who don't agree?
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Subject:Interesting development
Time:04:10 pm
I posted a question asking about BL's banning, and I find out I am on moderation.

Shoudl I assume I am considered a trouble maker? I mean someone cant be a member of two communities and be objective about either one can they.
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Subject:Emerald Rose (the real one)
Time:03:55 pm
"Emerald Rose" is a wonderful pagan band. I do not know if they have a relationship to _emerald_rose or not, and it really doesn't matter as far as I care. Their livejournal group can be found at emeraldrosega.
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[enyo]
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Subject:*raspberries to Jax*
Time:04:05 pm
Hey, Jax, I got kicked from wiccans_unite today, too. I find it funny, though, that she kicks you when you actually are a Wiccan, rather than a fraudulant hypocrite. :)

I'm not sure how long it took me to get kicked, though. :)
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Subject:The subject of labels
Time:03:43 pm
I wonder why certain people assume that neo-wicca means neo-pagan and vice versa...

Using those types of labels will confuse people... if one is neo-wicca yeah they may be neo-pagan, but that does not mean Neo-WIcca is neo paganism.. it is just a subset of Neo paganism...

and I am sorry but neo-pagans are not subsets of neo-wicca, that is like trying to claim that WIcca is the only religion and the rest of us do "something like wicca"... yeah right.

of Course I think neo-wicca is envious of Wicca (this I think I am establishing that neo-wicca is not BTW, ALexandrain, Gardnerian, or the like)...

any way that is my thought for the day...

I have two tests this week, tomorrow and thursday... wish me luck
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[enyo]
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Subject:Funny...
Time:03:28 pm
Funny how it seems that if someone is a member of both communities, they are only doing so to cause trouble.

Seems that Emerald Rose doesn't want a community, but a place to hold court. Otherwise, she wouldn't be doing everything that she can to squelch voices that don't agree with her worldview.

Can she do this? Absolutely. It's her community. I do, however, believe that in doing so, she is missing the point of both the name that she has selected for her community, and what a community means.
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[ulbh]
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Subject:Vinegar, honey, no difference
Time:04:21 pm
I thought I'd see if being reasonable would get me anywhere on wiccans_unite. It seems to have helped generate a longer discussion before the inevitable threatened-bunny response kicked in:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wiccans_unite/15987.html

Darn it, other than speaking to her as if I were an older adult and she were a teenager (duh), I didn't speak a word of "trouble" until the end there. And I see I'm also damned by association with wiccans_untie, which I didn't join until it was obvious that emerald_rose was going to stand firmly on her shaky pedestal.

It's too bad she chose that username; I know the members of Emerald Rose, and they're not a bit fluffy.

I've posted about this adventure on The FluffyHp Yahoogroup, too. Much amusement ensued.
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Subject:Irony of the day
Time:11:02 am
I read-back through some of the posts that are in a now friends-only thread at wiccans_unite.

I got this posted at me (and blackthornglade) amidst other ad hominem
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp11022002.shtml

The last frame is absolutely my favorite.
wiccans_unite WHAM! You're a victim! Hooray hooray, caloo, callay, frabjious day!


The whole wiccan commentary on S*P is great stuff that I've read many times. There are a few choice characters there ;)
After a few years you lighten up, drop the "OMG I am NOT a satanist, burning times, yadda yadda yadda" cruisade and laugh at jokes like this one.
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[enyo]
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Subject:Oh, how sweet!
Time:08:48 am
After emerald_rose was called on her hypocrisy by someone from wiccan, that comment suddenly disappeared.

Looks like all wiccans_unite really is is just an ego-stroking excercise in righteousness for a certain kid.
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Subject:RETRIBUTION!!!!!!!!
Time:08:44 am
Don't you love that word? It just rolls off the tongue.

Update July 13 8:40 AM. A second round of subtle rephrasing occurred over at wiccans_unite and a few things were removed there (red->green below). I'll let LJ's abuse team decide if its still an issue. I'm curious tho, if wiccans_unite is the copyright holder then why change anything?
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[enyo]
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Subject:Plugging
Time:08:10 am
I think that we should spread knowledge of this wonderous community by linking it within webpages and submitting it to pagan search engines. :)

Or maybe I'm just evil.
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Subject:Betcha this gets me banned for more than two weeks.
Time:06:09 pm
Current Mood:chipper
Over at wiccans_unite, the owner told me I was banned for two weeks for "flaming" and "raging." Of course, my comments were *so* inflammatory, they had to be deleted entirely... can't have anyone seeing someone point out that Bucky's research has gaping holes in it by today's standards.

9 million dead witches, indeed. And Wicca is a religion "of love and joy," not of balance or of connection to the Mysteries.

I was not told (of course) exactly what I said that was "a flame" or "raging," just that I'd broken the rules which had been on the start page for two whole days, and discussing a topic after the mods got bored with it was, of course, a banning offense. Apparently, so is speaking out against her community elsewhere; I'm told several people have been added to the banned list of this community that "is open to anyone."

I wonder what definition of "anyone" she's using. Obviously, it's time to drag out the
Llewiccan RedeCode
  1. All paths are valid, except the ones that have rules.

  2. Wiccans never use curses, except on really mean people who totally deserve it.

  3. The Threefold Law affects everyone, whether they believe in it or not; however, this is not to be taken to mean that Hell will affect everyone whether they believe in it or not.

  4. The most important thing for Witches in the public eye to do is to disavow any connection with Satanism.

  5. Karma can be summoned, directed, intensified, or averted entirely by saying the right words at the end of your spells. Except by mean people, who can't do any of these things.

  6. Sex and Blood are the forbidden topics.

  7. No religion, sect, lineage or coven is allowed to restrict its membership in a way that might be considered discriminatory. But they don't have to allow Satanists.

  8. All magickal groups are called "covens."

  9. Initiation is a formal ceremony, like a graduation. All it means is that you're officially recognized by a group.

  10. All Mysteries are available to everyone. Drugs or certain physical conditions are never necessary.

  11. Everyone's experiences and opinions are equally valid, equally correct in all ways. Except the Satanists, who are Christians in denial.

  12. The experience, skill and wisdom of a witch is measured by how many books she has read. Writing a book on Wicca (or a related topic) puts one ahead of any amount of reading or practical in-circle experience.

  13. You may be as mean as you want to anyone who violates the code... it's their Karma.


Additional Bonus rule; insert after any one or three of the rules above:
Never again the Burning Times!!!!
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Subject:Icon update
Time:05:23 pm
Looks like wiccans_unite did the right thing and added a credit in their info (Bob Wood) for their icon. So I've changed wiccans_untie's icon to my own original work.

Hope you like it.

Update UPDATE: ummm no... the Bob Wood credit was not for their Icon. I'll re-do the thing and put them back when I get a minute.
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Subject:Niiiiiice.
Time:04:49 pm
Good to know the history. You are my new best friend-that-I-don't-actually-know.
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Time:04:39 pm
ATTENTION: if you're curious why this community exists please read the updated INFO PAGE
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Time:04:16 pm
Waiting for the lj-abuse email to arrive. When it does I'll be sure to make some minimal changes to the info.
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Time:03:01 pm
To _emerald_rose it's fine to disagree with me, but to disagree with me and then ban me before you let me respond is really uncalled for.

And yes I delete messages if I get squelched. I'm not going to let you manipulate a conversation that way. If I'm not welcome then you cannot use any of my posts as your punching bag.
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Subject:Hi!!
Time:02:15 pm
Current Mood:cheerful
I am so happy to find a pagan community that will be ACCEPTING of ALL different wiccans and pagans! Because we should all be working together! and building the community!! WITH HARM TO NONE!

I love the goddess and that should be the most importent thing, right?? I LOVE HER and I know that she loves me!! and all living things, which is why I only eat fruit that has fallen on the ground by itself, and milk from the goat that my neighbor keeps in his yard, and THAT IS ALL. Meat is Mean, that is why they are only 1 letter different!!

I am practicing that thing I was talking about on TT, is it working??

LOVE AND LIGHT TO ALL!!!
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